It's Sore Back Season! Let's talk about avoiding surgery..

Meg McCormick Hoerner, Esquire (00:08)
All right, welcome back to the Bridgeton Beacon. I'm here today with Joe Falcone, Regional Marketing Director for Rise Chiropractic of South Jersey, So Joe, welcome.

Joe (00:19)
Thanks, man. Happy to be here.

Meg McCormick Hoerner, Esquire (00:21)
Great to have you. Great to have you. So you are the region regional marketing director for Rise Chiropractic of South Jersey. And you serve all of South Jersey, which is why we wanted to have you on the Bridget and Beacon. Talk a little bit about ⁓ what you and and the folks there at Rise Chiropractic of South Jersey do. ⁓ I'm sure.

that given the springtime and the summertime coming up, you probably have a lot of folks that want to get in there and get some treatment. those weekend warriors and and the like. So why don't you tell us a little bit about the business.

Joe (00:54)
Absolutely. So Rise Chiropractic started about eight years ago by Dr. Shane Becker, our founder, who went to Life University down in Marietta, Georgia. And our goal is to service the entire South Jersey community. Again, as you mentioned, we're in maple shade. Basically, you can see Cherry Hill from one side, Morristown from the other side. So we're a pretty good central location around the South Jersey area. And our office has grown since Dr. Becker started it.

about eight years ago now to a second location in Fairless Hills, Pennsylvania as well. So we're treating South Jersey as well as Buck County. And our approach is just I mentioned is to try and have the healthiest community and the healthiest community around South Jersey as we can. ⁓ As you mentioned, it's the summertime and there are a lot of people who are getting into sports, ⁓ kids, high school, college athletes and adults like ourselves who are, you know, just kind of looking to do some adult sports, golfing.

has been getting bigger around this time of year as well. So a lot more sports injury related ⁓ patients have been coming in. A lot of teachers as well, right? Sometimes teachers kind of put off their health concerns because they're too busy during the year to, you know, teaching, grading papers, doing extra, extra school, extra afterschool activities. So a lot of teachers have been coming in, you know, wanting to prioritize their health as well. So been a good influx of patients, again, just, you know, based on the time of year, which has been really great, the opportunity to help, you know,

than most of our community the weekend. And another thing that's great about this time of year, now that it's the spring and summertime, are there a lot more outdoor festivals and activities like Moorstown Days coming up next Saturday. We're gonna be there. And so the opportunity to meet more of the communities, spread the word about chiropractic care and how we're being able to help.

Meg McCormick Hoerner, Esquire (02:32)
All right, excellent. So why don't you tell us a little bit about chiropractic care? ⁓ we talked about how folks can come see ⁓ one of the chiropractors if there's an injury, ⁓ but I understand that you also have some folks that come on a regular basis. So if if somebody was gonna come out and talk to you about what you do, what what would they hear?

Joe (02:53)
Sure, so most patients certainly do come see us for a specific injury, whether it's they hurt their back, they hurt their neck, ⁓ some sort of sciatica pain. So at that point, every patient comes in for a full evaluation, including a nerve scan to see how your nervous system is functioning and a full x-ray. So our approach is to look at the nervous system as a whole, as opposed to just spinal injuries, right? The nervous system is controlled through your brain, through your spine. So...

We often ask patients what other types of issues they're experiencing, for example, digestive distress or headaches or migraines, because those are also linked to, you know, misalignments within the spine and therefore your nervous system's connection to your brain. most patients do start off on a bit more of a more frequent care plan or care program where we see them, you know, two to three times a week to really get, to really correct the issue that they're coming in for and get a lasting change with that.

Rather than, like similar to kind of you go to the gym one time, you know, you're not really gonna, you know, you're not gonna be Arnold. However, with consistency, the muscles start to grow. Your body, all of our bodies naturally move a certain way and perform a certain way. Our goal is to correct the way that your brain, your nervous system, and your overall body functions to be more optimal and to be more correct. So our goal is to start out, again, addressing specific injuries and issues.

and then move them more towards a corrective and then a stabilization care plan where they're coming in once a month, once every other month, just for maintenance. Similar to how you would, you you get oil changes in your car, even though your car is functioning fine, you come see us once a month, we make sure everything is continuing to work correctly based on what we were able to do in the beginning to get it working that way, and then you come as a maintenance. That's the goal, is to get everyone to some sort of a maintenance plan.

to make sure the body's just, know, every function of the body is functioning as properly as it can, yes.

Meg McCormick Hoerner, Esquire (04:51)
Yeah, it sounds like it's really a holistic way of looking at the whole person. ⁓ even though they might come in for a specific injury, it it really looks like or sounds like you look at that whole body, ⁓ to see how you can help them.

Joe (05:07)
Absolutely. Yeah, the body does work as a whole, right? So if you were, for example, someone comes in with, you know, a left shoulder injury, if we were to just simply look directly at that left shoulder, we're not looking at the other side of the body. We're not looking at any of the other load joints that are all affected every time you do anything. without, as you mentioned, like without looking at the body as a whole, you're going to miss things. You could certainly address some issues specific to what a patient is coming in looking for. But while we address the

posture and the alignment of the spine. There's muscles, there's joints, there's tendons, there's other aspects of movement and health that are indirectly helped with chiropractic care. But our goal is to look at everything as a whole and the body as a whole to make sure you're all functioning properly, not just a specific issue that you're coming in for. And to prevent more injuries from happening in the future. A lot of patients come in and say, oh, I had a little bit of pain years ago.

and then it just slowly progressed and progressed. And now they're coming into the office because it's affecting their sleep, it's affecting their job, it's affecting their day-to-day life. So what we try and do is, again, try and figure out what happened, whether it's years ago, months ago, even days ago, just had a patient who called who slept wrong and now his whole left arm is numb. So our goal is to look at everything, what could be causing, what they're coming in for, and how to prevent it into the future.

Meg McCormick Hoerner, Esquire (06:29)
Yeah, ⁓ you know, I checked out your website before we hopped on this call and the thing that struck me was that ⁓ it sounds like ⁓ your you and your t and the team ⁓ look at all age brackets. So from pediatric ⁓ to the elderly to everything in between, including ⁓ pregnant women, et cetera. ⁓ is that is that standard or is that something that you wanted just to make accessible to all

Shapes, sizes, ages, and the like.

Joe (07:01)
Well, most, I mean, from what our doctors have explained to me, you could get adjusted starting a few days, you know, coming out of the womb and all the way up until you're not our oldest patient, I believe was 96 that we're treating right now. So all age. Yes, it's ⁓ I mean, certainly their bones, right. Everyone's bones are different and bone density is instruction. So you can't do certain things to an elderly that you could an athlete that you could a baby. But yes. ⁓

Meg McCormick Hoerner, Esquire (07:15)
well.

Joe (07:27)
our goal and we do have the ability and the certifications to treat patients again from a few days old to, you know, their 90th birthday. ⁓ We often, as well as you mentioned, pregnant patients as well. Our doctors are certified and it's called the Webster technique, which is specific for pregnancy and pregnant women. So we see the mom once at the start and through the pregnancy. And then after the pregnancy as well.

making sure that the moms are still functioning properly and their babies too. So we certainly do recommend it for any and all ages. Again, you need to be a little bit nuanced with regards to the specific age of the person that you're working with. But we love seeing babies. It's certainly a challenge when the baby's crying. Because you can't really communicate, you're trying to help them feel better. And teenagers as well. We have a couple students, I should say, patients right now.

who having a little anxiety, a little bit of ADHD, a little mental confusion issues. ⁓ And the change that you see just from them coming in from one adjustment in and out is amazing. And our goal is to keep them that way so they don't need to keep coming to see us. It's certainly, we would love to. It's certainly a pleasure treating them. But ⁓ yeah, our goal is for you to kind of not need to see us, but just do in terms of just a maintenance goal. Yes, Yeah, a little bit of everything.

Meg McCormick Hoerner, Esquire (08:48)
Yeah, I think, you know, when most people

who aren't familiar with what chiropractors do, right, they think of, you know, them just like cracking somebody's neck and and that's all they do. But, you know, I in in doing just a little bit of research ⁓ about the services that you offer, there's a lot of discussion ⁓ on the website about peripheral neuropathy.

⁓ can you speak to that at all? What what is that?

Joe (09:13)
Yes, so peripheral neuropathy is nerve damage in the peripherals or the extremities away from the center. So you have your central nervous system, which is your spine, and then your peripheral nerves, which are the nerves that go from the spine into the hands and into the fingers, and then down the legs into the feet. And those peripheral neuropathy starts, oftentimes at least, in that spine. The nerves that go into the feet and into the hands

with misalignment with pressure, bulging discs, herniated discs, spinal stenosis, ⁓ hieropractically, our goal is to take pressure off of those nerves, you know, ⁓ so that way they can better communicate with those peripheral nerves. So, ⁓ when a patient comes in with peripheral neuropathy, they're oftentimes experiencing a numbness, a burning, a tingling, a pain or balance issues. Again, in those peripheral extremities in the hands, into the fingers and into the feet, down into the toes.

And our goal with those patients is to address the spine, which is where the nerves come from through chiropractic adjustments, taking pressure off of the nerves that again go down the legs into the feet or from the neck into the arms and the hands. And then to address the effects of those, right? The cause being misalignment within the spine or lack of blood flow and circulation as a result. And therefore those nerves can't feel certain sensations or feelings.

They feel that numbness, they feel that tingling, they feel that burning sensation instead. So we offer a program that's a combination of in-office therapies or in-office adjustments and at-home therapy so that way they don't have to come to the office, you know, two to three times a week, but can still address the cause and effect of that peripheral neuropathy to get a lasting result. It certainly does take time. It's not something that, you know, you come in or do, you know, one or two treatments and you're all better. But with time, we have many patients who have gone through the program

with still lasting results to this day.

Meg McCormick Hoerner, Esquire (11:11)
And to have ⁓ a solution that ⁓ doesn't involve surgery, I'm sure is appealing to so many.

Joe (11:19)
Absolutely. Like you said, most patients come in ⁓ when we, you know, we go through an initial evaluation. A lot of them say, I'm trying to avoid surgery, right? I've been told that eventually this will get so bad where they're going to have to cut off my fingers or they're going to have to cut off my toes. And I'm trying to avoid that as much as I can. Now, similar, you know, you go to a carpenter, they're going to say, use a hammer and a nail. You go to a surgeon and they look at nerves that

Meg McCormick Hoerner, Esquire (11:36)
Mm-hmm.

Joe (11:42)
look to be fairly dead, they're going to say, surgery is your option. Or if they go to a traditional medical doctor previously, they're trained in the pharmaceuticals and the medications, and there are medications and drugs out there that help to mask the symptoms, right? That burning pain, that tingling, that numbness. The medical, the medications out there, again, they dull the symptoms and they allow for the patient to get through the day without the extent of that damage, or without the feeling of that damage.

However, the actual cause of that damage is not being affected. So a non-surgical approach, which is what we offer, is certainly very appealing to people. And not having to lose your toes, not having to lose your limbs is what people strive to. We all, a lot of...

Meg McCormick Hoerner, Esquire (12:26)
Not have it to not

have to take ⁓ you know, controlled dangerous substances to feel okay and get through the day.

Joe (12:32)
Yes, and to not have to continue to up the dose of those because your body gets used to them and they no longer have an effect. And then eventually you go to your doctor and they say, I can't put you on enough. I can't put you on any more medications. Let's try a different one. And then eventually when you try enough, they say, sorry, there's nothing we can do. Come back when you feel like you want to get your toes cut off and no one wants to get their toes cut off. And that's we oftentimes we have a lot of patients confess that that's their fear of it progressing to that point. So it is certainly great to offer a

alternate solution to that. So that way, you know, people can feel better again, not no drugs, no surgery, no needles.

Meg McCormick Hoerner, Esquire (13:07)
you you describe on the website. It's a great website. I'd I'd suggest anybody who's ⁓ interested in in learning more, check it out. and that that can be found at Gorisechiropic dot com. there's a technique that's described ⁓ on there called the torque release technique, which I'd never heard of. Can you talk a little bit about what that is and who that's for?

Joe (13:11)
Thank you.

Sure. ⁓ traditionally, when you think chiropractic adjustments, most people think of the traditional crack in the neck, laying on the table, kind of like a Brazilian jujitsu type of move, things along those lines to get things back into place. ⁓ The torque release technique is a combination of light manual manipulation and the use of a tool called an integrator, which kind of looks like a pen that has a spring loaded to it so the doctors can set a specific amount of

pressure and the doctors use that to push the vertebrae back into place. Right, so for example, you know, just something simple like, know, ideally we're looking for this. Well, if one of the vertebrae is out this way, you can use manually the traditional chiropractic can push that vertebrae back into place or the torsion, the torque release technique uses that tool to get this specific vertebrae and push that into place. ⁓

So the doctors use that in terms of their assessment before making any sort of adjustments. We use that in combination with the x-rays that take to know specifically where to use that Arthostim tool to, I'm sorry, that integrator tool to, again, push things back into place. And most of the adjustments are a little bit more gentle in that case. Oftentimes...

Meg McCormick Hoerner, Esquire (14:45)
I was just gonna say

it sounds like that's a little more gentle than what you would traditionally think of as ⁓ something a chiropractor would do, which is probably also very appealing to a lot of your your patients or your clients.

Joe (14:57)
Yes, it is. again, to be fair, the manual technique, I suppose the more traditional, has helped many people obviously for years before. We, as our marketing director talking to a lot of patients, we certainly do run into patients who said, I've been to a chiropractic and they did one adjustment to me and it's hurt ever since. Or I've heard of someone who went and they went for one adjustment and it felt like the manualness to it.

Meg McCormick Hoerner, Esquire (15:06)
Nice.

Joe (15:23)
was a bit aggressive and they're like, I don't want anyone to touch my neck like that ever again. So yes, so we are trying to explain to patients that that is, know, again, helpful for certain patients, not everyone. So the a little bit less manual, a little bit less intense, but more frequent can get the same, if not better results using that lighter technique. Yes. And more specific.

Meg McCormick Hoerner, Esquire (15:45)
And the technique that's described on the site is diversified. Is that a combination of the Okay.

Joe (15:51)
Yes.

Yeah, it's a combination of ⁓ light manual adjustments. They still can do a little bit of this depending on the situation. But the Torp Elease technique, which again, uses the integrator and specific testing methods to make sure that all the hips and the vertebrae are aligned in the spine, same with the neck as well. Yeah.

Meg McCormick Hoerner, Esquire (16:11)
Okay. And you mentioned a couple

of minutes ago ⁓ the Webster technique that is used on pregnant women. ⁓ is that in conjunction with their OBGYN? Do you have ever run into a problem where an OBGYN, you know, kind of puts the kibosh on ⁓ s ⁓ a a pregnant woman coming to see you? And how do you navigate that?

Joe (16:31)
We have in the past, and that's a matter of having our doctors and their doctors speak to try and figure out specifically what it is. ⁓ We have specific pillows that allow for more space for the pregnant women who come in. ⁓ We always take x-rays now, depending on the state of the pregnancy, we don't x-ray, you know, wouldn't want to x-ray a pregnant woman. But if for some reason their doctor does say, don't recommend chiropractic for you, we'd like to know why.

because again, their training and their expertise in terms of end their experience with that patient is gonna be a little bit different than ours. So we do try and work with their OBGYN, with their doctors to figure out what the reason they potentially wouldn't recommend chiropractic care, because as you mentioned, that Webster technique is great. It does help to make sure that the hips and the diaphragm are as open. So that way it takes as much pressure off of the spine for the mom, as well as allows as much space in the womb for the baby to grow.

healthily and just make it for an easy seamless pregnancy. Most of the time I would say we do not get pushback from their OBGYNs or chiropractors, but it certainly does happen and it's really just a conversation. We have our doctors and their doctors figure out what specifically the reason for it is. And certainly if it's warranted then we'll put a pause to it, but oftentimes most of the patients usually help with that, yes.

Meg McCormick Hoerner, Esquire (17:49)
Great, great. And

yeah, it's always about, you know, open communication, which is which is great. You mentioned at the beginning that Rise Chiropractic was founded by Dr. Shane Becker. ⁓

Joe (17:53)
Has to be. Has to be.

Yes.

Meg McCormick Hoerner, Esquire (18:06)
Well, as we wait for Meg to rejoin us due to technical issues, if you're a chiropractor or you run multi-location chiropractor offices, check out afterinjuries.com or visible.info. We work with chiropractors to get them surfaced as the local expert for the most important case types in their practice. We specialize in helping multi-location.

Chiropractic offices consolidate their authority as opposed to dilute it, so they get cited in AI summaries, so they get found in the Google Map Pack. We pump up their authority, Well, here's Meg. Again, that's visible.info or after injuries.com.

Meg McCormick Hoerner, Esquire (18:56)
Sorry about this.

Meg McCormick Hoerner, Esquire (18:57)
All right, think we're back up and we're back up and running here.

Joe (18:57)
Thanks.

Meg McCormick Hoerner, Esquire (18:59)
Try this one more time. When did Dr. Shane Becker ⁓ found Rise Chiropractic? And you looks like you've got a number of employees. ⁓ are they all a couple couple different chiropractors, clinical directors, ⁓ a whole team established? Do you ever have ⁓ folks that

Joe (19:05)
Yes.

Meg McCormick Hoerner, Esquire (19:20)
specifically request a female versus a male or mm-hmm.

Joe (19:23)
We do,

we do. And we have certainly run in the past, run into patients who for some reason feel that they think that a female chiropractor might not be strong enough to provide the correct release or pound of pressure needed for specific chiropractic adjustments. All of our chiropractors, Dr. Becker, ⁓ and then we have...

We just had another, so we have three at the New Jersey office, one at the Pennsylvania, so four total, ⁓ all of which, you know, are board certified, went to life university. So they've all went through the same education and practice and abilities, but we do often, I shouldn't say often, but we certainly do at times run into people who prefer a woman or prefer a man, ⁓ which again, having, you know, been in the industry for myself for going on seven, eight years now have been adjusted by both and you know,

If you went to school, have the degree. I trust that you have the experience and the ability to do so. And ⁓ it's often funny. we do have some, again, patients who have said, I prefer a man to a woman. Our office runs, this is the chiropractor who's adjusting. So it's interesting to see their face when they leave the adjustment, when they're walking out of the, at the front desk saying, that actually felt really good. Like they were surprised about that, which, you know, we try certainly not to try not to take an insult, but our doctors are very good at, again, what they do.

And ⁓ if a patient does prefer one to the other, we certainly do try and be accommodating to a certain point. We certainly want to make everyone feel comfortable, but ⁓ they're all trained in all the same techniques and use all the same tools, have all the same information. And we try and provide the same adjustment and service with every adjustment to every patient.

Meg McCormick Hoerner, Esquire (21:10)
How long does it take to become a chiropractor?

Joe (21:12)
After four years of your bachelor's degree, I believe it's a three and a half year program for most. ⁓ Plus, know, clinicals in the, so about four years, yes. Yeah. ⁓

Meg McCormick Hoerner, Esquire (21:18)
Okay. Okay. Okay. That's what I thought. Okay.

⁓ and it looks like you've got some varied hours open Monday through Thursday, ⁓ ten to one and three to six thirty, which is great because it looks like you're open every evening, Monday through Thursday until six thirty, close Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Is that correct? Do you ever have anybody every anybody ever can't make it?

Joe (21:44)
That is correct. Yes. Yeah. And I will say that that

545, 6 o'clock, 615 time is always rocking and rolling. That's definitely our biggest time of the day, especially on Mondays and Thursdays, I would say, like at the start of the week, after the weekend, and then before the rest of the weekend. And again, because, you know, most people do work. With the combination of the diversified torque release technique, the adjustments last no more than five to 10 minutes. So we try and be cognizant of our patients.

who are taking out of their day to come see us. Some patients come at lunch, but the later evening hours, again, our variability, we just get a lot of people on their way home from work. They get in, they get adjustment, they leave feeling good, five, 10 minutes, then they're back at home. So ⁓ those evening hours are great. know, just really would help a lot more people with regards to that,

Meg McCormick Hoerner, Esquire (22:32)
Is it hard for a new patient to get in and get an appointment and a and an evaluation? Like well if somebody who's never been to a chiropractor wants to see what it's all about, would they reach out and and have like a consult first or how would that work?

Joe (22:46)
So I mean, every page, every it starts off with a phone conversation, I use it with myself or one of the girls at the front. ⁓ The initial evaluation is, you know, that's just depends on our schedule. This week, for example, I think we have one or two openings for the week, if not next week's looking good. So ⁓ it's certainly easy to get in with regards to that. The initial evaluation, we try and make it very simple. There's certainly intake paperwork, but it's, you know, no more than any other office. And you talk about ⁓

you know, someone who's unfamiliar with it. We are certainly very big with education at the office. A lot of the feedback we've gotten over the years is, you know, we've gone to this doctor or that doctor and they didn't really give a ton of explanation or education as to what they do or why they're going to do what they're going to do on the patient. So we, we, we focus on that.

We have things around the office, visuals around the office, and lot of our teams are very trained in terms of the explanation to make sure that if anyone has any question about anything the office does, whether it's specific to the technique, whether it's how our office differs from others, insurance benefits, things along those lines, we try and answer everyone's question, especially because if you're gonna go to a doctor who you're gonna be seeing multiple times a week, and that will be physically touching to you, you wanna make sure all your questions are answered and you feel comfortable doing that, or else,

You may feel tense or anxious or tight during that whole experience, and that's the opposite of what we want, yes.

Meg McCormick Hoerner, Esquire (24:10)
Right. I liked what you said in the beginning that you are out in the community at different events. I think you mentioned one if you can repeat that, that's coming up, so that if somebody's curious, they could come and actually meet, I would presume, at least one of the chiropractors. Is that accurate?

Joe (24:28)
Absolutely, yeah. ⁓ we are members of the Burlington County Chamber of Commerce. So they often have like health and wellness events. Like this past year, we've had three events at the Deptford Mall, the Cherry Hill Mall and the Quaker Bridge Mall to try and spread the word there. And then ⁓ there's, so for example, next Saturday is what I mentioned is Morristown Day where businesses in and around Morristown that are a part of the Morristown New Jersey Business Association set up a tent and ⁓ exhibit in terms of the services that they do.

I myself will be there. think one of my staff is gonna be there with me this Saturday, not one of the doctors. But yeah, we're available to answer any questions and we do have the ability to have open communication with any of the doctors specifically. ⁓ Certainly with ⁓ anything medical, sometimes patients do feel a little hesitant, divulging certain details to someone not the doctor, or even the doctor, which is understandable. So we try and again, have that comfortable environment and.

My job again is marketing is any sort of Morristown Day, ⁓ Community Day, Food Truck Festival, Health and Wellness event is to get the rise name out there. So in that time where, you know, unfortunately things do happen, when those things happen, they think, ⁓ I saw that guy at the Morristown Day. Maybe I'll give him a call and, you know, try and help as many people as we can, you know, having that face-to-face, you know, personal interaction, especially with the way technology is nowadays. ⁓

We like to physically talk to people. We like to look to people in the eye and look in the face and really try and understand what they're going through and, you know, try and offer to help.

Meg McCormick Hoerner, Esquire (26:04)
Great, that sounds fantastic. So ⁓ you're located at three hundred South Linola Road, Maple Shade Township.

eight five two the phone number if you don't mind I'll give it out eight five eight five six four nine two six nine three six great website that you can find at gorisechiropractic dot com. Joe Falcone Regional Regional Marketing Director. Anything else you want to ⁓ maybe let our listeners know while we have you we can always have you back but ⁓ appreciate you taking the time to hop on and share ⁓ what you can do for

All of our South Jersey listeners.

Joe (26:43)
I appreciate you having me, Meg. Thank you very much. our slogan at Rise is true health starts with you. And when it comes to any sort of health and chiropractic specifically, you know your body and our patients know their body better than we do. our goal is to try and help them understand a little bit more about their body and about how we, and again, non-invasive way,

are able to help as much as we can to get them to perform, to function, and to live as best as they can. Again, it's kind of like a double-edged sword. We like our patients, we love seeing our patients, but our goal is for you to not need to come see us at some point. So again, thank you for that. Yes, we are in the Kingsway Plasma Shopping Center. It's across from the BJ's, Kings Highway and Linole Road, down the street from the Morristown Mall, right off 3873, easy to get to. And if you or any of your listeners, you'll certainly have any questions.

Meg McCormick Hoerner, Esquire (27:27)
Okay, yep.

Joe (27:35)
please feel free to reach out, make a consultation evaluation. We'll treat you well.

Meg McCormick Hoerner, Esquire (27:40)
Excellent. Easy ride up from South Jersey for sure. And ⁓ true health starts with you. I love it. Great way to end on this ⁓ on this afternoon. And we'll definitely have you back, Joe. Thanks again.

Joe (27:43)
Yes.

Thank you again for your time.

Meg McCormick Hoerner, Esquire (27:53)
Hang tight one second.

Joe (27:53)
it.